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John's favorite ringtones



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 8th 05, 01:38 PM
Jack Zwick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default John's favorite ringtones

In article [email protected],
"Sarf" Sarfs_Account(at)Hotmail.com wrote:

http://j.navas.home.att.net/johns_ringtones.zip


I hope he's paid royalties on all of those, otherwise the RIAA and their
lawyers may come a calling.
  #2  
Old January 8th 05, 06:25 PM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In on Sat, 08 Jan
2005 12:38:14 GMT, Jack Zwick wrote:

In article [email protected],
"Sarf" Sarfs_Account(at)Hotmail.com wrote:

http://j.navas.home.att.net/johns_ringtones.zip


I hope he's paid royalties on all of those, otherwise the RIAA and their
lawyers may come a calling.


Knock yourself out. All are excerpts of MIDIs that presumably fall under the
Fair Use doctrine.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular
  #3  
Old January 8th 05, 11:30 PM
N Hamilton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's a misunderstanding of the Fair Use provisions of Federal copyright laws.
Fair use applies to users of small amounts of copyrighted material primarily for educational use or critical commentary.
Fair Use absolutely does not allow plain folks to use copyrighted songs on their phones particularly when there is
a ligitimate commercial market selling these songs with rights that have been purchased by the ringtone vendors.

You no more have the right to use even a small amount of copyrighted song than a college student has the right
to download a full song for his personal, private enjoyment.

Will you get caught? No, of course not. But don't claim it's legal!

"John Navas" wrote in message ...
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In on Sat, 08 Jan
2005 12:38:14 GMT, Jack Zwick wrote:

In article [email protected],
"Sarf" Sarfs_Account(at)Hotmail.com wrote:

http://j.navas.home.att.net/johns_ringtones.zip


I hope he's paid royalties on all of those, otherwise the RIAA and their
lawyers may come a calling.


Knock yourself out. All are excerpts of MIDIs that presumably fall under the
Fair Use doctrine.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular



  #4  
Old January 9th 05, 12:12 AM
John Navas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I respectfully disagree. Copyright law does allow people to use copyrighted
songs and performances on cell phones (absent a specific prohibition), just as
it allows them to make their own recordings. In addition, these are (a) MIDIs
with no performance copyright; (b) short clips, not entire songs; and (c) less
good than free clips on commercial download services.

Caveat: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice -- consult your own
attorney.

p.s. Please don't switch posting styles (top vs bottom) in mid-thread -- it's
confusing, and considered a bit rude. Thanks.

In on Sat, 08 Jan 2005
22:30:45 GMT, "N Hamilton" wrote:

That's a misunderstanding of the Fair Use provisions of Federal copyright laws.
Fair use applies to users of small amounts of copyrighted material primarily for educational use or critical commentary.
Fair Use absolutely does not allow plain folks to use copyrighted songs on their phones particularly when there is
a ligitimate commercial market selling these songs with rights that have been purchased by the ringtone vendors.

You no more have the right to use even a small amount of copyrighted song than a college student has the right
to download a full song for his personal, private enjoyment.

Will you get caught? No, of course not. But don't claim it's legal!

"John Navas" wrote in message ...
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In on Sat, 08 Jan
2005 12:38:14 GMT, Jack Zwick wrote:

In article [email protected],
"Sarf" Sarfs_Account(at)Hotmail.com wrote:

http://j.navas.home.att.net/johns_ringtones.zip

I hope he's paid royalties on all of those, otherwise the RIAA and their
lawyers may come a calling.


Knock yourself out. All are excerpts of MIDIs that presumably fall under the
Fair Use doctrine.


--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular
  #5  
Old January 9th 05, 12:34 AM
Scott Stephenson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You're worng on this one, John. The copyright is held by the songwriter (or
his assigned agent) and is on the song, not the performance. Permission
must be obtained to perform, record or use the song for profit, and the
copyright holder does have the right to determine unwanted uses of their
material. There is no exclusion for cellular phones, and legitimate
ringtones do result in royalty payments to the artist.

What you are doing does not come close to being copyright legal. The
recordings you are using (regardless of format) were not authorized by the
copyright holder of the song. To distribute these without permission is
wrong. And before you start the "small clip" argument, two paragraphs
copied out of a novel is still plaigerism.

"John Navas" wrote in message
...
I respectfully disagree. Copyright law does allow people to use

copyrighted
songs and performances on cell phones (absent a specific prohibition),

just as
it allows them to make their own recordings. In addition, these are (a)

MIDIs
with no performance copyright; (b) short clips, not entire songs; and (c)

less
good than free clips on commercial download services.

Caveat: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice -- consult your

own
attorney.

p.s. Please don't switch posting styles (top vs bottom) in mid-thread --

it's
confusing, and considered a bit rude. Thanks.

In on Sat, 08 Jan 2005
22:30:45 GMT, "N Hamilton" wrote:

That's a misunderstanding of the Fair Use provisions of Federal copyright

laws.
Fair use applies to users of small amounts of copyrighted material

primarily for educational use or critical commentary.
Fair Use absolutely does not allow plain folks to use copyrighted songs

on their phones particularly when there is
a ligitimate commercial market selling these songs with rights that have

been purchased by the ringtone vendors.

You no more have the right to use even a small amount of copyrighted song

than a college student has the right
to download a full song for his personal, private enjoyment.

Will you get caught? No, of course not. But don't claim it's legal!

"John Navas" wrote in message

...
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In on Sat, 08

Jan
2005 12:38:14 GMT, Jack Zwick wrote:

In article [email protected],
"Sarf" Sarfs_Account(at)Hotmail.com wrote:

http://j.navas.home.att.net/johns_ringtones.zip

I hope he's paid royalties on all of those, otherwise the RIAA and

their
lawyers may come a calling.

Knock yourself out. All are excerpts of MIDIs that presumably fall

under the
Fair Use doctrine.


--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular



  #6  
Old January 9th 05, 02:43 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John wrote:
I respectfully disagree.


Please, read about fair use. The "small size" component is only one of
a number of necessary parts for fair use to apply. Your use does not
satisfy any of the other components of fair use.
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyrigh...er9/index.html

Copyright law does allow people to use copyrighted
songs and performances on cell phones (absent a
specific prohibition), just as it allows them to make
their own recordings


I must be missing something here. Does this count as a prohibition:
US Code Title 17 Chapter 1 Section 106:
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;


In addition, these are
(b) short clips, not entire songs;


The length only comes in to play with fair use exemptions. Since your
use does not meet with any of the other fair use criteria, length is
irrelevant.

and (c) less good than free clips on commercial download services


Do you think that a pirate video tape vendor would get away with the
argument that their video was obviously of inferior qualiity, and thus
didn't interfere with the marketability of the original?

Do I care that people are distributing low quality renditions of
sections of songs without permission? Not in the slightest. I have no
problem with it. I just don't want people to think that it's actually
legal.

  #7  
Old January 9th 05, 02:57 AM
Jack Zwick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com,
wrote:

John wrote:
I respectfully disagree.


Please, read about fair use. The "small size" component is only one of
a number of necessary parts for fair use to apply. Your use does not
satisfy any of the other components of fair use.
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyrigh...ter9/index.htm
l

Copyright law does allow people to use copyrighted
songs and performances on cell phones (absent a
specific prohibition), just as it allows them to make
their own recordings


I must be missing something here. Does this count as a prohibition:
US Code Title 17 Chapter 1 Section 106:
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;


In addition, these are
(b) short clips, not entire songs;


The length only comes in to play with fair use exemptions. Since your
use does not meet with any of the other fair use criteria, length is
irrelevant.

and (c) less good than free clips on commercial download services


Do you think that a pirate video tape vendor would get away with the
argument that their video was obviously of inferior qualiity, and thus
didn't interfere with the marketability of the original?

Do I care that people are distributing low quality renditions of
sections of songs without permission? Not in the slightest. I have no
problem with it. I just don't want people to think that it's actually
legal.


Thank you for that clarification. Maybe Navas will now wake up, take his
illegal ringtones off his website and apologize, since you proved him
wrong.
  #8  
Old January 9th 05, 05:19 AM
Jack Zwick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
ArchieLeach wrote:

wrote in
oups.com:

I must be missing something here. Does this count as a prohibition:
US Code Title 17 Chapter 1 Section 106:
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;


The "copyrighted work" referred to in this part of the US Code is a
specific recorded performance.

For example, Irving Berlin wrote "White Christmas" and Bing Crosby
recorded it for RCA. The law you cite refers to Crosby's recorded
performance, and the "owner of copyright" is RCA (now BMG). BMG could not
use that law to prosecute the creator or distributor of an unauthorized
midi file of "White Christmas". Now, if you distributed a wav or mp3
ripped from a CD of Bing's performance, BMG theoretically could take
action.

Irving Berlin's publisher or estate - whoever presently owns the
publishing rights to "White Christmas" - likely *could* pursue a claim if
so inclined, if the creator of the midi file didn't either specifically
pay a royalty for using the song, or hasn't paid for ASCAP or BMI
membership in order to cover the distribution of royalties to composers &
lyricists.

Of course, cell-phone ringtones would probably be considered "personal
use" rather than "public performance", so the likelihood of legal action
is low. Consider that neither brides, disc jockeys nor hotels need to pay
ASCAP/BMI/RIAA royalties for wedding receptions (for events that are open
to the public, the venue or event producer is responsible for royalty
issues).


But if they are posted on web site for others to use, the RIAA is very
interested in such occurances.
  #9  
Old January 9th 05, 05:40 AM
Jack Zwick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jack Zwick answered:

In article ,
ArchieLeach wrote:


wrote in
groups.com:


I must be missing something here. Does this count as a prohibition:
US Code Title 17 Chapter 1 Section 106:
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;


The "copyrighted work" referred to in this part of the US Code is a
specific recorded performance.

For example, Irving Berlin wrote "White Christmas" and Bing Crosby
recorded it for RCA. The law you cite refers to Crosby's recorded
performance, and the "owner of copyright" is RCA (now BMG). BMG could not
use that law to prosecute the creator or distributor of an unauthorized
midi file of "White Christmas". Now, if you distributed a wav or mp3
ripped from a CD of Bing's performance, BMG theoretically could take
action.

Irving Berlin's publisher or estate - whoever presently owns the
publishing rights to "White Christmas" - likely *could* pursue a claim if
so inclined, if the creator of the midi file didn't either specifically
pay a royalty for using the song, or hasn't paid for ASCAP or BMI
membership in order to cover the distribution of royalties to composers &
lyricists.

Of course, cell-phone ringtones would probably be considered "personal
use" rather than "public performance", so the likelihood of legal action
is low. Consider that neither brides, disc jockeys nor hotels need to pay
ASCAP/BMI/RIAA royalties for wedding receptions (for events that are open
to the public, the venue or event producer is responsible for royalty
issues).



But if they are posted on web site for others to use, the RIAA is very
interested in such occurances.


But then again, everyone knows I LOVE sucking cock.
  #10  
Old January 9th 05, 05:43 AM
Jack Zwick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jack Zwick answered:

In article .com,
wrote:


John wrote:

I respectfully disagree.


Please, read about fair use. The "small size" component is only one of
a number of necessary parts for fair use to apply. Your use does not
satisfy any of the other components of fair use.
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyrigh...ter9/index.htm
l


Copyright law does allow people to use copyrighted
songs and performances on cell phones (absent a
specific prohibition), just as it allows them to make
their own recordings


I must be missing something here. Does this count as a prohibition:
US Code Title 17 Chapter 1 Section 106:
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;



In addition, these are
(b) short clips, not entire songs;


The length only comes in to play with fair use exemptions. Since your
use does not meet with any of the other fair use criteria, length is
irrelevant.


and (c) less good than free clips on commercial download services


Do you think that a pirate video tape vendor would get away with the
argument that their video was obviously of inferior qualiity, and thus
didn't interfere with the marketability of the original?

Do I care that people are distributing low quality renditions of
sections of songs without permission? Not in the slightest. I have no
problem with it. I just don't want people to think that it's actually
legal.



Thank you for that clarification. Maybe Navas will now wake up, take his
illegal ringtones off his website and apologize, since you proved him
wrong.


And then maybe he'll finally take me up on my offer, and stick his thumb
up my ass. God, my Butt is WET with the thought of it.
 




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