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USA are at least 2 to 3 years behind Europe cell phone



 
 
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  #71  
Old October 16th 04, 02:46 PM
gopi
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Jer wrote in message ...
Too funny, my brother dislikes teleweenies as much as I, and whenever he
gets one at home, he always complains to them about having called him on
his cell. Click! they're history. And so stupid.


I've got a friend who also likes to play with telemarketers. When he
gets calls from newspaper ones, he tells them he's blind. With only a
single exception, they're extremely apologetic and sorry. The one
exception was a particularly dim fellow who continued to assure him
the deal was good. The offer was so much better than retail, how could
he pass it up? They went back and forth a few times, but this guy
really couldn't comprehend that a blind person absolutely, positively
did _not_ want a newspaper subscription...
  #72  
Old October 16th 04, 07:54 PM
Jer
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gopi wrote:
Jer wrote in message ...

Too funny, my brother dislikes teleweenies as much as I, and whenever he
gets one at home, he always complains to them about having called him on
his cell. Click! they're history. And so stupid.



I've got a friend who also likes to play with telemarketers. When he
gets calls from newspaper ones, he tells them he's blind. With only a
single exception, they're extremely apologetic and sorry. The one
exception was a particularly dim fellow who continued to assure him
the deal was good. The offer was so much better than retail, how could
he pass it up? They went back and forth a few times, but this guy
really couldn't comprehend that a blind person absolutely, positively
did _not_ want a newspaper subscription...



LOL! Two levels of blindness - one understandable, the other not.

Back when I accepted these types of calls, I NEVER offered a shred of
truth regardless of the pollster's subject. Yup, while intentionally
wasting their precious teleweenie time, I've been blind, sick, crazy,
old, young, rich, poor, Republicrat AND Demican, etc. A few times I was
simply answering a pay phone that was ringing and then tried to sell
them something. Other times I was just answering to avoid waking the
people I was stealing from. I told one to help me avoid waking the baby
by whispering - and they did - afterwards laughing so hard I think I
broke my face. Another time I asked the teleweenie to wait a few
moments until I was better able to chat, then setting the phone down my
lady friend and I pretended to have graphically lewd, wall-banging sex
for several minutes before they eventually hung up. I'm firmly
convinced these dim bulbs are so desperate to accomplish their goals as
to tolerate practically anything for the chance of hearing me say I'm
not interested. What a bunch of baffoons!


--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
  #73  
Old October 22nd 04, 07:48 PM
Osmo Ronkanen
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Jer wrote in message ...

Some of us don't need any excuse for not giving our phone number to
people we don't want to give it to. As far as I'm concerned, a 'caller
pays' system would stop this telemarketer crap dead center.


No it does not. The mobile costs are insignificant. Average work in
Finland costs 37 cents a minute. Calling to a mobile phone costs 7 cents
a minute on its lowest in Finland.

The issue of costs from land line to mobile call is basically meaningless as
one can always use a mobile to make the call. If the volume is high enough
one can get a system that decides automatically whether to call through
the mobile network or the land lines so one does not even accidentally pay
the high landline to mobile prices.

Or maybe you could kindly inform the telemarketers here not to call me
as it is too expensive to them :-)

In Finland it costs 7-14 cents a minute to make a call to a call from
mobile phones to other mobiles or landlines. A call from landline to
mobile costs about 26 cents a minute on business hours (7-8 AM to 5-6 PM)
and 17 cents on other times. On calls from land lines there is also is
a per call fee of around 10 cents. Local calls are about 1 cent a minute
and long distance about 4-8 cents a minute.

(All figures ar naturally in euro cents)

Osmo
  #74  
Old October 22nd 04, 09:02 PM
Osmo Ronkanen
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(gopi) wrote in message m...

My biggest problem with the caller-pays system is that the caller pays
an unreasonably large amount of money. As a concept I like the idea of
caller pays, but the implementation costs too much money, IMHO.


It is hard to combine the systems, one basically has to have either one
in a country. On a receiver pays system a caller pays phone is really
like a raised middle finger especially if one already pays a high monthly
fee that should cover all calls. On a caller pays country nobody would
get a receiver pays phone.

The caller pays system increases the spread of mobile phones as that's
the way to avoid the high land line to mobile fees. The caller pays system
has annoying aspects relating to international calls. I can make local calls
here to land-lines or mobiles at 10.5 cents a minute. If I make a call to
a foreign land line it costs additional foreign call fee which to, say,
Germany would be 16,8 cents a minute (using the came carrier as I have
for my mobile). That gives me only a call to a land line. If I need to call
a mobile there is additional cost of 16,8 cents/min for the downlink.
I basically end up paying the down link twice. If I called to U.S. that
would be only 10,5+15 cents a minute regardless of the type of the
receiving phone. Remember also that on foreign numbers it is not easy
to know it they are land lines or cellular phones. The rules vary on
country to country though one can get them on the net.

Also if one travels abroad one starts to pay for receiving calls.
In Germany it would cost me 50-68 cents a minute to receive calls.
That's more than it would cost me to call to a German mobile from
Finland. This is because in roaming one cannot choose the international
carrier.

In a caller pays country there is a problem of high termination fees (i.e.
fees that a network charges for other carriers for calls that end in its
phones.) The fees in Finland are 9-11 cents a minute and that's without
the 22% tax. So I pay 10.5 cents for a call. The state gets 1.9 cents a
minute as tax. The operator gets 8.6 cents but it has to pay 10-11 cents
a minute to the receiving network if the call exits the network. (This
is simplified as it makes no distinction between service and network
operators). The termination fees are not direct to competive pressure so
they tend to be as high as the state an other operators allow them to be.
Operators actually lose money on calls to other networks and tend to
get that from calls to land lines, calls from land lines, calls to
own network and as termination fees from received calls. In a reciever
pays system there are no such problems and the cost of the downlink
is also subject to direct competive pressure. There is less need for
the operators to negotiate prices and the state to get involved.

So there are arguments for either system. I personally like the
caller pays system as I expect the one who has something to say
to me to pay for it.

Osmo
  #75  
Old October 23rd 04, 02:38 AM
Jer
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Osmo Ronkanen wrote:

Jer wrote in message ...


Some of us don't need any excuse for not giving our phone number to
people we don't want to give it to. As far as I'm concerned, a 'caller
pays' system would stop this telemarketer crap dead center.



No it does not. The mobile costs are insignificant. Average work in
Finland costs 37 cents a minute. Calling to a mobile phone costs 7 cents
a minute on its lowest in Finland.

The issue of costs from land line to mobile call is basically meaningless as
one can always use a mobile to make the call. If the volume is high enough
one can get a system that decides automatically whether to call through
the mobile network or the land lines so one does not even accidentally pay
the high landline to mobile prices.


In the U.S. we already have something of that sort - it's called a law,
which forbids telemarketer calls to any wireless communication device.
Mind you, the phone numbers for these devices are always predictable,
and are used by the automated dialing equipment as a filter. Also, on
my personal home phone lines, there is another telco feature called
"Privacy Manager" which also disallows inbound calls to me if the call
lacks Caller ID data.

Here in America, we have a nasty little thing called responsibility, and
since I'm responsible for the bill, I get to decide whom I talk to.
Unidentified telemarketer calls used to be a major pain, because my home
phone auto-forwards to my cell when I step out the door. Now, since I
also pay for the Caller ID feature on my home phones, telemarketer calls
*are* identified when they aren't filtered by Privacy Manager (most
are). Since I always know the mumber of those who have my permission to
call me, I always know a stranger's number when I see one, and I let
those calls ring through to voice mail, and if it's important, I'll hear
the message sooner or later. It's less an issue of cost, it's more an
issue of I've never spoken to a telemarketer that had anything to say
that I wanted to hear. More recently, I might get 2-3 tm calls a week,
when it used to 10 a day. I live in a neighbourhood that is routinely
targeted by tm weenies.

So, telemarketers use the phone system and the snailmail system and the
email system, all at a significantly reduced cost to them. And my point
is if their costs were more in line with people's opinion of them, I
think they'd STFU more often without having to be told to do so.



Or maybe you could kindly inform the telemarketers here not to call me
as it is too expensive to them :-)


I'm afraid I'll never get the chance.

[....]


--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
  #76  
Old October 23rd 04, 10:32 PM
Osmo Ronkanen
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Jer wrote in message ...
Osmo Ronkanen wrote:

Jer wrote in message ...


Some of us don't need any excuse for not giving our phone number to
people we don't want to give it to. As far as I'm concerned, a 'caller
pays' system would stop this telemarketer crap dead center.



No it does not. The mobile costs are insignificant. Average work in
Finland costs 37 cents a minute. Calling to a mobile phone costs 7 cents
a minute on its lowest in Finland.

The issue of costs from land line to mobile call is basically meaningless as
one can always use a mobile to make the call. If the volume is high enough
one can get a system that decides automatically whether to call through
the mobile network or the land lines so one does not even accidentally pay
the high landline to mobile prices.


In the U.S. we already have something of that sort - it's called a law,
which forbids telemarketer calls to any wireless communication device.


That law is just because the receiver pays. Here there is no such law
as the receiver does not pay and there is really no need to make a
difference between land lines and cellular phones. I personally am
against telemarketing and think that there should be stonger regulation
if not outright ban. IMO the marketers should have a duty to put a
block covering all marketers if the victim so wants.


Mind you, the phone numbers for these devices are always predictable,
and are used by the automated dialing equipment as a filter. Also, on
my personal home phone lines, there is another telco feature called
"Privacy Manager" which also disallows inbound calls to me if the call
lacks Caller ID data.


Here the law gives phone owners the right to block such calls.
Unfortunately the auhorities do not enforce that.

Here in America, we have a nasty little thing called responsibility, and
since I'm responsible for the bill, I get to decide whom I talk to.
Unidentified telemarketer calls used to be a major pain, because my home
phone auto-forwards to my cell when I step out the door. Now, since I
also pay for the Caller ID feature on my home phones, telemarketer calls
*are* identified when they aren't filtered by Privacy Manager (most
are).


You pay for caller ID? Here it is free (well at least in Helsinki)

Since I always know the mumber of those who have my permission to
call me, I always know a stranger's number when I see one, and I let
those calls ring through to voice mail, and if it's important, I'll hear
the message sooner or later. It's less an issue of cost, it's more an
issue of I've never spoken to a telemarketer that had anything to say
that I wanted to hear. More recently, I might get 2-3 tm calls a week,
when it used to 10 a day. I live in a neighbourhood that is routinely
targeted by tm weenies.


That's bad. I personally get much fewer, maybe a few times a month. It
still is annoying especially if the marketer starts his slakespseech instead
of even trying to discuss. Fortunately the marketing is not that bad
here. Of course one should think where to give the number. If I
subscribe to a magazine I do not give them by number as the magazine
is not delivered through the phone. Of course they can still pick
it somewhere. Telemarketing is not a way I want to buy things. I want
to consider the issue before I make the decision.

Here one can block most telemarketers by calling to a number.
Unfortunately that number is expensive and as a principle I do
not want to pay for protection.

Osmo
 




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