A mobile phone forum. Mobile-Forum

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » Mobile-Forum forum » General mobile phone forums » GSM
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Big Brother is watching you



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 26th 04, 05:47 PM
EL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Brother is watching you

Big Brother is watching you

FCC did it again

By December 31, 2005, your cell phone company will always know exactly where
you are. That's when the FCC will complete Phase II of its Enhanced 911
(E911) program, requiring all U.S. wireless carriers to provide the
location-within 50 to 100 meters in most cases-

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1463748,00.asp


  #2  
Old September 27th 04, 12:15 AM
michael turner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:47:17 -0700, EL wrote:

Big Brother is watching you

FCC did it again

By December 31, 2005, your cell phone company will always know exactly where
you are.


Wonder how they're going to implement that ?

Here in the UK, the Vodafone GSM telco has a 'Find Me' service, and I've
found it to no more accurate than a few miles at best.

That's when the FCC will complete Phase II of its Enhanced 911
(E911) program, requiring all U.S. wireless carriers to provide the
location-within 50 to 100 meters in most cases-


All new handsets must have GPS fitted ?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1463748,00.asp


--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

  #3  
Old September 27th 04, 01:29 AM
Stephen R. Troy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, michael turner wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:47:17 -0700, EL wrote:

Big Brother is watching you

FCC did it again

By December 31, 2005, your cell phone company will always know exactly where
you are.


Wonder how they're going to implement that ?

Here in the UK, the Vodafone GSM telco has a 'Find Me' service, and I've
found it to no more accurate than a few miles at best.

That's when the FCC will complete Phase II of its Enhanced 911
(E911) program, requiring all U.S. wireless carriers to provide the
location-within 50 to 100 meters in most cases-


All new handsets must have GPS fitted ?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1463748,00.asp


--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)



They don't need GPS -- if you measure the phone signal's time of arrival
at several cell towers, you can triangulate the position.

  #4  
Old September 27th 04, 02:14 AM
matt weber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:15:17 +0100, michael turner
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:47:17 -0700, EL wrote:

Big Brother is watching you

FCC did it again

By December 31, 2005, your cell phone company will always know exactly where
you are.


Wonder how they're going to implement that ?

It is done by extracting more precise timing (at least on a GSM
system). Normally the network only tracks timing to a few microseconds
(+/- about 500 meters), however it can be tracked with much higher
accuracy. If you get timings from two BTS's that are good to say .1
microsceond,. The timing data and timing advance gives you the
distance from the BTS, draw the two circules, and where they intersect
(2 places) are the only possible locations.

Often times the second position will be impossible because of the
antenna geometry (it cannot be there, because if it was, the antenna
we used couldn't hear it). Worst case is a 3rd BTS timing signal, even
with relativley low accuarcy will tell you where the phone has to be.

Here in the UK, the Vodafone GSM telco has a 'Find Me' service, and I've
found it to no more accurate than a few miles at best.

That's when the FCC will complete Phase II of its Enhanced 911
(E911) program, requiring all U.S. wireless carriers to provide the
location-within 50 to 100 meters in most cases-


All new handsets must have GPS fitted ?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1463748,00.asp


  #5  
Old September 27th 04, 03:03 AM
EL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Why they can not find our phone when it stolen or lost ?

"matt weber" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:15:17 +0100, michael turner
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:47:17 -0700, EL wrote:

Big Brother is watching you

FCC did it again

By December 31, 2005, your cell phone company will always know exactly
where
you are.


Wonder how they're going to implement that ?

It is done by extracting more precise timing (at least on a GSM
system). Normally the network only tracks timing to a few microseconds
(+/- about 500 meters), however it can be tracked with much higher
accuracy. If you get timings from two BTS's that are good to say .1
microsceond,. The timing data and timing advance gives you the
distance from the BTS, draw the two circules, and where they intersect
(2 places) are the only possible locations.

Often times the second position will be impossible because of the
antenna geometry (it cannot be there, because if it was, the antenna
we used couldn't hear it). Worst case is a 3rd BTS timing signal, even
with relativley low accuarcy will tell you where the phone has to be.

Here in the UK, the Vodafone GSM telco has a 'Find Me' service, and I've
found it to no more accurate than a few miles at best.

That's when the FCC will complete Phase II of its Enhanced 911
(E911) program, requiring all U.S. wireless carriers to provide the
location-within 50 to 100 meters in most cases-


All new handsets must have GPS fitted ?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1463748,00.asp




  #6  
Old September 27th 04, 03:43 AM
Jer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

michael turner wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:47:17 -0700, EL wrote:


Big Brother is watching you

FCC did it again

By December 31, 2005, your cell phone company will always know exactly where
you are.



Wonder how they're going to implement that ?

Here in the UK, the Vodafone GSM telco has a 'Find Me' service, and I've
found it to no more accurate than a few miles at best.


That's when the FCC will complete Phase II of its Enhanced 911
(E911) program, requiring all U.S. wireless carriers to provide the
location-within 50 to 100 meters in most cases-



All new handsets must have GPS fitted ?



That was one consideration in the early stages of planning. But
handsets often disappear into an overhead areas where GPS won't work.

However, here's the skinny for some U.S. wireless carriers...
http://www.trueposition.com


--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know." -- Richard Wilbur
  #7  
Old September 28th 04, 01:45 AM
matt weber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:03:25 -0700, "EL" wrote:

Why they can not find our phone when it stolen or lost ?

Because at the moment, the operationg of the advanced timing software
is tied to calling 911.


  #8  
Old September 28th 04, 11:50 AM
michael turner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:45:57 -0700, matt weber wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:03:25 -0700, "EL" wrote:

Why they can not find our phone when it stolen or lost ?

Because at the moment, the operationg of the advanced timing software
is tied to calling 911.


So for the rest of us, the location is probably determined by which cell
the phone is registered on. Which could explain why my SP's(Vodafone UK)
'Find Me' feature is only accurate to a few miles at best, and is quite
often more than ten miles out.

--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

  #9  
Old September 28th 04, 03:22 PM
Jer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

EL wrote:

Why they can not find our phone when it stolen or lost ?


Your question presumes...
1. the phone is still turned on
2. the battery hasn't gone dead yet
3. the 'finder' system is always completely functional
4. the phone is actually in a trackable location
5. the phone was ever trackable in the first place
6. anybody cares about finding it in the second place

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
  #10  
Old September 29th 04, 12:51 AM
matt weber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:50:07 +0100, michael turner
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:45:57 -0700, matt weber wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:03:25 -0700, "EL" wrote:

Why they can not find our phone when it stolen or lost ?

Because at the moment, the operationg of the advanced timing software
is tied to calling 911.


So for the rest of us, the location is probably determined by which cell
the phone is registered on. Which could explain why my SP's(Vodafone UK)
'Find Me' feature is only accurate to a few miles at best, and is quite
often more than ten miles out.


Actually most of the time, they should be able to find you with more
accuracy than that. Your distance from the BTS is known to +/- about
500 meters from the timing advance. Bearing is +/- 60 degrees. The
closer you are to the BTS, the more accurate the position estimate is
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Posting this Question for my brother... West of Indianapolis ArcWeld-jalin Cingular 1 October 7th 04 08:11 AM
Big brother is watchin you ( Find Friend ) EL AT&T Wireless 4 September 29th 04 07:27 AM
Cops want you to junk your cellphone, buy a new one with Big Brother inside DexAZ General 1 February 22nd 04 01:38 AM
Cops want you to junk your cellphone, buy a new one with Big Brother inside LithiaSpgs AT&T Wireless 0 February 21st 04 01:05 AM
Could this be Larry's brother? AL General 7 October 24th 03 11:36 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2018 Mobile-Forum.
The comments are property of their posters.