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Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 23rd 16, 06:45 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
Why do so very many apps require location access anyway?

For example, *why* does ES File Explorer need location access?
http://i.cubeupload.com/HH2sfG.png

I'm shocked at how many apps "require" location access.

For example, why does the basic *clock* need location access?
http://i.cubeupload.com/mAHrrA.png

A couple of days ago, when I factory reset Android 4.3 and re-installed all
my apps, one by one, from APKs, I decided to turn off location access for
all but the map apps.

It amazes me how many apps "require" location access.

I don't see why a WiFi Analyzer needs location access, do you?
http://i.cubeupload.com/PKxm2Z.png

Why does the T-Mobile carrier-iq "System Manager Application" need it?
http://i.cubeupload.com/puQjf5.png

Or the Contacts app, for heaven's sake?
http://i.cubeupload.com/QDEOwe.png

The list goes on and on and on.
My "experiment" is to see if anything bad happens.
So far, after two days, nothing bad has happened yet.

So my question is only:
Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
Why do so very many apps require location access anyway?
  #2  
Old September 23rd 16, 09:35 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
AL[_33_]
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Posts: 6
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't needit?

On 9/23/2016 9:45 AM, Horace Algiers wrote:
Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?


Yes.

why does the basic *clock* need location access?


Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)

I don't see why a WiFi Analyzer needs location access,


Mine doesn't. (WiFi Analyzer version 3.9.10-L)

My "experiment" is to see if anything bad happens.
So far, after two days, nothing bad has happened yet.


If an app wants 'location' it asks me to change the settings.

So my question is only:
Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?


That was your first question in this post.

  #3  
Old September 23rd 16, 11:47 PM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Carlos E.R.
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Posts: 26
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't needit?

On 2016-09-23 21:35, AL wrote:
On 9/23/2016 9:45 AM, Horace Algiers wrote:
Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?


Yes.

why does the basic *clock* need location access?


Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)


To change to the local time of the location you are at.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #4  
Old September 24th 16, 02:04 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:47:54 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

Yes.
why does the basic *clock* need location access?

Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)

To change to the local time of the location you are at.


While a clock app *might* need to know the GPS location in order to figure
out what time zone it's in, "my" clock is doing fine without having access
to the GPS location.

Of course, I haven't changed time zones in the past two days, but, there
*is* a "Date and time" setting in Android 4.3:
XXXXX

Notice that I have set:
[x] Automatic date and time (Use network-provided time)
[x] Automatic time zone (Use network-provided time zone)

So, um, er ... can't the clock get the time and time zone from the
so-called "network-provided" time and time zone?

If the clock is not getting the time and time zone from the network, how
does it get the *time* merely from the GPS location? [It can't.]
  #5  
Old September 24th 16, 02:04 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:35:54 -0700, AL wrote:

Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?


Yes.


Thanks for honestly answering the question.

I'm on Android 4.3 which allows App Ops Starter to control permissions.
I think App Ops Starter doesn't work with 4.4 (from memory, so I could be
wrong), and that it's not needed in 5.0 and above.

Do you know if that's true?


why does the basic *clock* need location access?


Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)


Thanks for letting me know that.

The only reason an Android clock might need the location is for automatic
time-zone correction - but - doesn't the clock get the time from the
carrier signal?

My clock seems to be version 3.0 and it *does* seem to want the location.
http://i.cubeupload.com/mAHrrA.png

So, why would we need Timezone correction if the carrier signal is
*already* corrected?

I guess we need to ask two questions to answer that:
1. How does Android get its time (in the notification bar)?
2. How does the clock app get its time?

Are these two methods the same or different?

I don't see why a WiFi Analyzer needs location access,


Mine doesn't. (WiFi Analyzer version 3.9.10-L)


Again, thanks for the input.
There is a pattern here.

My WiFi Analyzer does ask for permission, and it's version 3.9.
http://i.cubeupload.com/PKxm2Z.png

So your versions are all slightly newer than mine.
Maybe the app developers had an epiphany between your OS and mine?

My "experiment" is to see if anything bad happens.
So far, after two days, nothing bad has happened yet.


If an app wants 'location' it asks me to change the settings.


Thanks for that input. In my case, location is asked by the map apps, but
not necessarily by the clock app or ES File Explorer, or the WiFi Analyzer.

I'm not sure what that tells me, but it makes sense that if an app truly
*needs* the location, that it should simply *ask* for the location access
at the time it needs it.

So my question is only:
Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?


That was your first question in this post.


It seems you have a *different* Android OS than I do, and certainly your
apps are newer, so, that's probably the distinction.

It will be interesting to see how others fare on whether their basic apps
ask for location permission or not and whether people manually grant that
access or not.
  #6  
Old September 24th 16, 02:10 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 00:04:40 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers wrote:

Of course, I haven't changed time zones in the past two days, but, there
*is* a "Date and time" setting in Android 4.3:
XXXXX

Notice that I have set:
[x] Automatic date and time (Use network-provided time)
[x] Automatic time zone (Use network-provided time zone)

So, um, er ... can't the clock get the time and time zone from the
so-called "network-provided" time and time zone?

If the clock is not getting the time and time zone from the network, how
does it get the *time* merely from the GPS location? [It can't.]


I forgot to include the screenshot:
http://i.cubeupload.com/PGzaHa.png

Notice that I have set:
[x] Automatic date and time (Use network-provided time)
[x] Automatic time zone (Use network-provided time zone)

I don't know where the clock app gets its time and time zone from, but it
would seem to me it would just need to get it from the system clock and
system location, which can be provided by the carrier, it seems.
  #7  
Old September 24th 16, 03:03 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Jeff Liebermann[_2_]
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Posts: 421
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 00:04:42 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers
wrote:

The only reason an Android clock might need the location is for automatic
time-zone correction - but - doesn't the clock get the time from the
carrier signal?

My clock seems to be version 3.0 and it *does* seem to want the location.
http://i.cubeupload.com/mAHrrA.png

So, why would we need Timezone correction if the carrier signal is
*already* corrected?


Good question. I tested that on a fair collection of old Android
smartphones. The smartphone clock was set by cellular clock and not
by the GPS. For example, if I put my current Moto G phone into
Airplane mode, but with the GPS on and running, the clock will drift
at an alarming rate. The internal clock drift is really awful,
because it doesn't need to be accurate since it has the cellular clock
to keep it accurate.

Next, I turned off the GPS and Cellular, but enabled Wi-Fi. I
connected to my office router and waited for the expected clock
correction. Nope. No NTP (network time protocol) anywhere in sight.
That kinda makes sense because there's nowhere in the Android settings
to specify an NTP server.

Bottom line is that if you want an accurate clock, you need to leave
cellular turned on.

Incidentally, there's a bit of a problem between the GPS and UTC time
on some phones (in this case an old Droid X2):
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GPS-vs-UTC.jpg
Nothing much is broken unless you're doing astronomy, navigation, or
surveying with your smartphone:
http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm
The problem was fixed on most smartphones long ago, but the problem
keeps reappearing on even new phones:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-time-displayed-on-most-android-phones-is-wrong/

There is a pattern here.


Where there's a pattern, there must also be a conspiracy.

It will be interesting to see how others fare on whether their basic apps
ask for location permission or not and whether people manually grant that
access or not.


"Everything every Android Developer must know about new Android's
Runtime Permission"
https://inthecheesefactory.com/blog/things-you-need-to-know-about-android-m-permission-developer-edition/en
https://developer.android.com/training/permissions/index.html

If you have rooted your Android device, and have adb installed, run:
$ adb shell pm list permissions -d -g
for a list of apps showing the current permissions. I don't have a
rooted device handy, so I can't post some typical output.

There are also apps for managing permissions:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=permissions%20manager&c=apps&hl=en


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #8  
Old September 24th 16, 03:09 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Jeff Liebermann[_2_]
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Posts: 421
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:03:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

No NTP (network time protocol) anywhere in sight.
That kinda makes sense because there's nowhere in the Android settings
to specify an NTP server.


I did some more digging and found that some Android runtimes have an
NTP server hard coded into the firmware. Specifically the stock
version has 2.android.pool.ntp.org buried in the binary. See line
820 in:
https://android.googlesource.com/platform/frameworks/base/+/40caf8f4432acd2b9d9230b2b1371660521415c2/core/res/res/values/config.xml#802
The OEM versions might use other servers. There's also some question
as to whether any of these Android phones actually use a hard coded
NTP server. I suspect not.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #9  
Old September 24th 16, 03:23 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:03:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I tested that on a fair collection of old Android
smartphones. The smartphone clock was set by cellular clock and not
by the GPS.


Thanks Jeff.
What I love about *your* responses is that you *back up* what you say.

So, you can be *believed* because you have credibility.

I believe you when you say that the Android clock gets its time zone and
time from the carrier signal.

And, the fact you *tested* that (on WiFi) is great proof of that.
And, that GPS doesn't help the clock drift (I can't see how it would since
the admittedly extremely accurate atomic clock *in* the satellite isn't
sending *that* signal to the phone, is it?).

Bottom line is that if you want an accurate clock,
you need to leave cellular turned on.


That confirms what I had thought.
So, in effect, the clock (and all those other apps) don't *need* location
access.

So why do they bother to force users (who don't know any better) to allow
location access when the clock (system) app is first installed by the
manufacturer?

What *advantage* is it to the clock app, or to the system manufacturer (who
installed the clock app in the first place) to *require* location access?

Makes no sense to me.
Does it make sense to you?

What do they gain?
What can they do with it in a clock app?
  #10  
Old September 24th 16, 03:42 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:03:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

There are also apps for managing permissions:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=permissions%20manager&c=apps&hl=en


That list brings up something that always confused me about App Ops Starter
(com.schurich.android.tools.appopsstarter) reports on "course location,
fine location" as can be seen in "Email" and "Firefox" on the screenshot
below:
http://i.cubeupload.com/di3NN6.png

When I look at Firefox', it has a *switch* to turn off access location:
http://i.cubeupload.com/2uW611.png

But, when I look at Email, it does *not* have that switch:
http://i.cubeupload.com/GhyJRj.png

Can someone explain:
a. Why do both Email & Firefox say "fine location, course location" but
only Firefox can be turned off with App Ops Starter?

b. What is the *difference* between "fine location" and "course location"
anyway (with respect to location-access permissions)?
 




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