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Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?



 
 
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  #61  
Old September 26th 16, 04:17 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Carlos E.R.
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Posts: 26
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't needit?

On 2016-09-26 02:22, Horace Algiers wrote:

Given that it just "passively" scans for frequencies which include Europe
and US channels, the WiFi analyzer basically shouldn't need location
access, and, what's worse, the fact that it *asks* for location access,
probably means that they "do something" with it (e.g., maybe they transmit
it back to the mother ship?).


I doubt it.

Why else would it ask if they didn't do something with it?


Well... for instance, to show adds for my location.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #62  
Old September 26th 16, 04:18 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Carlos E.R.
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Posts: 26
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't needit?

On 2016-09-26 02:23, Horace Algiers wrote:
I suspect most developers will set it to target 22; but I would be
pleasantly surprised if they set it to target 23!


I have seen several apps ask at runtime.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #63  
Old September 26th 16, 04:23 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 04:14:29 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

I see 1 to 14, 15 is out. But the list is manually configurable. And
second but, 15 is not an option to enable.


Thank you very much for posting that, in your locale, the channels for WiFi
Analyzer are different than they are for us in the USA (as Jeff reported
it).

I presume you're in Germany?

DISCLIAMER: (Most non-USA posters seem to be in Germany, so that's just a
guess, although with a name like Carlos, your heritage is likely more
Mediterranean if not south Germany).

The 5 GHz band enables 36 40 44 48 149 153 157 161, but it does not
appear to work.


The GUI is a bit non intuitive where you have to actually press the 2.4GHz
button to get 5GHz and even then, you have to scroll - so - "maybe" it's a
GUI thing?

NOTE: I'm not attacking you - I'm just saying the GUI isn't intuitive and
sometimes it doesn't report what you think because you have to control the
GUI to get it to report what you want (at least that's my humble opinion).
  #64  
Old September 26th 16, 04:35 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 04:17:10 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Well... for instance, to show adds for my location.


Ah. I never see the ads.
Maybe they are there, but I never look.
So I forgot about that.
  #65  
Old September 26th 16, 04:38 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 04:18:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

I suspect most developers will set it to target 22; but I would be
pleasantly surprised if they set it to target 23!


I have seen several apps ask at runtime.


That's good information to know.
I have only seen, I think, map apps ask for location access at runtime (as
I recall).

But, overall, other than *map* apps and perhaps the "convenience" apps such
as weather and local news, is there anyone who sees a danger or problem
with simply turning off all apps' location access, and then, just turning
on the location access *when* and *if* it's actually needed by you?

What apps *need* location access?
- maps
- customized apps for your location (e.g., weather & news & prices)
- anything else?
  #66  
Old September 26th 16, 04:56 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Jeff Liebermann[_2_]
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Posts: 421
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 04:14:29 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote:

On 2016-09-26 02:22, Horace Algiers wrote:

It would be nice if some of our European friends on this ng would install
and test that WiFi analyzer to tell us how it works with the European
2.4GHz channels.


I see 1 to 14, 15 is out. But the list is manually configurable. And
second but, 15 is not an option to enable.

The 5 GHz band enables 36 40 44 48 149 153 157 161, but it does not
appear to work.


There are far more channels available in Europe.

Go to
Settings - Channel Settings - Available Channels - 5GHz
and see if all your local wi-fi channels are enabled, or if they have
defaulted to US standards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

For the US, the 5GHz band would be:
36 - 68 even numbered channels
100 - 144 even numbered channels
149 - 165 odd numbered channels

For Europe, the 5GHz band would be:
36 - 64 every other even numbered channel
100 - 140 every other even numbered channel
149 - 165 odd numbered channels (SRD)



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #67  
Old September 26th 16, 05:39 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Jeff Liebermann[_2_]
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Posts: 421
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 20:13:41 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

My guess(tm) is:
wifi only = Wild guess based on various inaccurate databases,
geodata, IP location, etc.
coarse = GPS only.
fine = AGPS (assisted GPS) using location data from cell site.


I don't think AGPS is any better resolution than GPS, merely that it can
get a fix quicker if the almanac is out of date by fetching it as data
rather than waiting for it as satellite broadcast, or you've travelled a
considerable distance with GPS disabled.


I beg to differ.

I think you mean "accuracy" instead of "resolution". AGPS was
contrived solely to meet the FCC requirements for E911 location
accuracy about 12 years ago. It's been a point of contention before
the FCC because it's a difficult and expensive problem. In 2015, the
FCC added indoor accuracy requirements:
https://www.fcc.gov/public-safety-and-homeland-security/policy-and-licensing-division/911-services/general/location-accuracy-indoor-benchmarks
In 2017, the basic requirement is:
"All providers must achieve 50-meter horizontal accuracy or
provide dispatchable location for 40 percent of all wireless
911 calls. (47 C.F.R. 20.18(i)(2)(i)(A))"
By 2021, the 50 meter accuracy is expected for 80% of the wireless 911
calls.

Simple GPS cannot meet these specifications, especially in a
reflective environment. Worse, there's a tradeoff between accuracy
and speed of acquisition. High Speed GPS:
http://www.furuno.com/en/gnss/technical/tec_high
is a huge improvement, offering a dramatic improvement in sensitivity,
but doesn't do anything for accuracy.

One of the solutions to the accuracy is augmented GPS (AGPS). AGPS
uses data from multiple location sources, such as cell sites to obtain
a more accurate location. It barely works, especially indoors mostly
because of reflections. There are other schemes, such as
triangulation between cell towers, TDOA (time difference of arrival),
differential GPS using marine navigation beacons (DGPS), GLONASS, and
Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS/EGNOS). All of these have their
benefits, but I don't think any of them are going to meet future
accuracy requirements.

There are also some cheats, such as AT&T. Their solution is to assume
that anyone calling 911 is in a vehicle. This is a good assumption
based on caller statistics. In California, when you call 911, you
don't get the local 911 PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point). You get
the Highway Patrol. So, AT&T decided to fudge to location to coincide
with highways and roadways, thus improving their "accuracy". That has
failed miserably when someone called 911 from a baseball field, that
had no address, and where the AGPS kluge located them at the nearest
major roadway, about 1/2 mile away.

One thing that should be recognized is that the position provided to
the 911 PSAP by a common cell or smart phone is NOT the lat-long. It's
the raw satellite delay data as received by a rather crude GPS
receiver. These delays are then forwarded to the cell site, which
sends them to a service provider on the internet. The data is then
processed, along with any other location data available, and sent back
to the cellular provider. The cellular provider then forwards the
actual location to the PSAP.

Despite its complexity, it's a very fast and efficient system. You
can see how it works by trying a simple experiment, probably with an
unactivated smartphone. Put your smartphone into Airport mode, which
turns off the Wi-Fi and Cellular sections. Make sure the GPS can be
enabled, but also turn it off. Wait a day, and move the phone 15
miles or more away from where you put it into Airplane mode. The
question is how quickly can it acquire a usable location. Run your
favorite OFFLINE mapping program and see what happens.

When I've done it, the initial lock comes fairly rapidly because you
haven't really moved that far away from your original position.
However, since the phone no longer has the benefits of AGPS to get a
better initial location, the time to produce a usable location is much
longer. With AGPS, my phone takes about 10-20 seconds. Without AGPS,
it takes about 7 minutes or more. In some reflective locations (urban
canyons), it can take 15 minutes or more. If you really want to slow
things down, set the clock to the wrong time. Without the cellular
time to fix that, it has to wait for the satellite time code from the
GPS satellites, which I think might be sent every 15 mins.

Location accuracy is a messy topic, both technically and politically.
I could write all night on the topic, but not tonite. Dinner beckons.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #68  
Old September 26th 16, 05:46 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Jeff Liebermann[_2_]
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Posts: 421
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 00:23:01 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:23:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I forgot the main site, which also has A-B routing:
http://www.openstreetmap.org
Click on the arrow icon to the right of the search box "Go".


Thanks for that URL as it seems to show *different* county park and open
space and San Jose Water boundaries than I had thought.


The "boundaries" seem to vary between geographic, political, and land
use designations. In my area, the green areas reflect forested areas
and do not follow any artificial boundary lines, such as state and
local parks. I have the feeling they were generated by scanning
satellite and aerial photos.

Of course, the question is always one of accuracy...


Accuracy, quality, changes. Pick any two.
If you still want to make changes, such as closed roads, it will be
more accurate, but the quality of the maps will suffer as everyone
makes changes based on their personal preferences. Careful what you
wish for.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #69  
Old September 26th 16, 06:00 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Horace Algiers
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Posts: 64
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 20:39:26 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

There are also some cheats, such as AT&T. Their solution is to assume
that anyone calling 911 is in a vehicle. This is a good assumption
based on caller statistics. In California, when you call 911, you
don't get the local 911 PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point). You get
the Highway Patrol. So, AT&T decided to fudge to location to coincide
with highways and roadways, thus improving their "accuracy". That has
failed miserably when someone called 911 from a baseball field, that
had no address, and where the AGPS kluge located them at the nearest
major roadway, about 1/2 mile away.


To this point, I never call 911 from home because I get the highway patrol
in Vallejo California, about 75 miles away, which is more than an hours
drive on the highway, without any traffic!

So one of my contacts is listed as "Emergency", and *that* calls the
*local* 911 dispatcher.

I guess I should make that local 911 a "speed dial" similar to "911", maybe
"91" or something like that.

OT: Do any of you have a good speed-dial mechanism so that I can program
the *local* 911 into my cellphone to be called when I call, say, "91"?
  #70  
Old September 26th 16, 06:27 AM posted to comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular,alt.internet.wireless
Jeff Liebermann[_2_]
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Posts: 421
Default Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 00:23:03 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers
wrote:

That's interesting because I always wondered *where* Google Maps gets it's
baseline map information from.


https://maps.google.com/help/maps/mapcontent/basemap/
I guess the theory is that if you mix in all the various and diverse
AUTHORITATIVE map sources, the errors will all cancel.

My guess(tm) is that most road maps were originally aerial photos,
where software traced out the roads.
https://developmentseed.org/blog/2015/08/17/uav-for-road-monitoring/

Fire up Google Earth and it tells you date, but not the sources or the
images. I guess there are just too many now to list them on the maps.
However, if you go back to older images with:
View - Historical Imagery
you'll see the source of the images at the lower center of the screen.
Scrolling through my home area, I find USGS, NASA, Digital Globe, USDA
Farm Service Agency, Google, etc.

Incidentally, the County of Santa Cruz paid a fairly large amount of
money to do a LADAR survey of the county from the air. For
benchmarks, they painted a white "X" on top of all the manhole covers.
Can't get much better than that.

Many years ago, I worked with CDF (Cal Fire) on jurisdictional
boundary maps. The problem was that the SCZ County and San Mateo
County maps did not meet neatly at the boundary. The gap left a fair
number of house in the gap with fire service from either both
jurisdictions, or neither jurisdiction. Roads would also appear to be
skewed or broken. Rumor had it that one house burned down while fire
fighters from SCZ and San Mateo argued over who should put out the
fire. I don't know if that was for real. I was not involved in the
inevitable compromise. All I know is that it worked and was
non-violent.

Everyone else (e.g., the police, fire department, etc.) gets their maps
from the GIS office (AFAIK).


Nope. The PSAPs (public safety answering points) use the telephone
company property maps for 911 location. Since the call originally was
expected to come in via a wired POTS phone line, these property
numbers could be used for location. There's a dedicated computah of
obtaining location data on 911 calls from this computer. The location
is in a proprietary format which eventually produces a location on the
dispatchers console. This is why giving the dispatcher your location
in lat-long has been somewhat of a problem. However, I'm about 10
years behind on this technology and things may have changed.

Given that system, I would *assume* that Google Maps gets their baseline
maps from GIS.


GIS is not a company or organization. It stands for Geographic
Information System. While there are now organizations for dealing
with discrepancies, such as what happens with we have an earthquake, a
botched surveying job, or continental drift, there is no central
depository for all the nations map data.

I don't want to assign homework to you, but, if/when you have time (ok if
that's never), you could check to see if your local GIS map has the same
errors that you see in Google Maps.


Sigh. I don't think you realize how much work that could be. I've
done this rather crudely using Google Earth, which allows for
overlays. I create an overlay map and record the lat-long of the map
corners. When I insert it into Google Earth as a semi-transparent
overlay, I can see how the features line up. I do this often with
radio and cellular coverage patterns. It's not difficult to see that
the roads don't always line up very well.
https://www.google.com/earth/outreach/tutorials/earthoverlays.html

Wow. I have friends in that Mountainview HQ but even they told me to get my
map corrections through the official channels! You have more clout than I
do down the hill in Mountainview!


That was maybe 10 to 15 years ago. I don't think I could do it today.
The problem today is very different. With all the distributed
companies and work at home systems, just finding the person in charge
of something is difficult. Getting a consensus is impossible because
I'm not on their secure work network. Dinner bribes are also
difficult if the manager is somewhere in India or China.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




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