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Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 14th 11, 06:19 AM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
Todd Allcock[_2_]
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Posts: 3,159
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

At 12 Apr 2011 19:30:31 -0500 Paul Miner wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:04:04 -0700, SMS
wrote:

On 4/12/2011 9:24 AM, Justin wrote:

Calling anyone on unlimited or who stays under whatever cap they
may have a data hog is specious. If I pay for 5GB of data on my cell
phone, any time I use less than that 5GB in a month I am leaving

money
on the table.


That's true. And when you go to an all-you-can-eat restaurant, if you
leave while the restaurant still has food left, you're leaving money

on
the table too.


Apparently analogies are harder than I thought. A 5GB data plan
obviously isn't analogous to an all-you-can-eat buffet.



Particularly since unused bandwidth can't bestored and resold tomorrow
like the leftover mac-n-cheese on the buffet.

That's the real problem with mobile data. At three o'clock in the
morning when I'm barreling down some deserted stretch of highway, my
carrier couldn't care less if I stream Pandora or Netflix the whole way.
It's during business hours when the same behavior might interfere with
the corporate users paying top dollar that I might be a liability. With
packet data, we all still get to connect, but excessive use slows
everyone's throughput.


  #2  
Old April 14th 11, 04:37 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
SMS
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Posts: 7,880
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

On 4/13/2011 9:19 PM, Todd Allcock wrote:

That's the real problem with mobile data. At three o'clock in the
morning when I'm barreling down some deserted stretch of highway, my
carrier couldn't care less if I stream Pandora or Netflix the whole way.
It's during business hours when the same behavior might interfere with
the corporate users paying top dollar that I might be a liability. With
packet data, we all still get to connect, but excessive use slows
everyone's throughput.


Yet they've never been interested in following the peak/off-peak pricing
model that they use for voice.

AT&T's approach of providing more and more hotspots, while offering
tiers of data service, is likely to be copied by all the other carriers
(at least the tiered data service). When you access to wi-fi at
Airports, Bakeries, Barber Shops, Bars, Campgrounds, Car Repair Shops,
Car Dealers, Car Washes, Coffee Houses, Colleges, Copy Centers, Donut
Shops, Freeway Rest Areas, Government Buildings, Hospitals, Medical
Centers, Hotels, Laundromats, Libraries, Parks, Restaurants, Shopping
Malls, Friend’s Homes, etc., and use mobile data only when there's no
other source available, your mobile data needs are greatly reduced.
  #3  
Old April 14th 11, 05:10 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
Justin[_2_]
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Posts: 2,534
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

SMS wrote on [Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:37:39 -0700]:
On 4/13/2011 9:19 PM, Todd Allcock wrote:

That's the real problem with mobile data. At three o'clock in the
morning when I'm barreling down some deserted stretch of highway, my
carrier couldn't care less if I stream Pandora or Netflix the whole way.
It's during business hours when the same behavior might interfere with
the corporate users paying top dollar that I might be a liability. With
packet data, we all still get to connect, but excessive use slows
everyone's throughput.


Yet they've never been interested in following the peak/off-peak pricing
model that they use for voice.

AT&T's approach of providing more and more hotspots, while offering
tiers of data service, is likely to be copied by all the other carriers
(at least the tiered data service). When you access to wi-fi at
Airports, Bakeries, Barber Shops, Bars, Campgrounds, Car Repair Shops,
Car Dealers, Car Washes, Coffee Houses, Colleges, Copy Centers, Donut
Shops, Freeway Rest Areas, Government Buildings, Hospitals, Medical
Centers, Hotels, Laundromats, Libraries, Parks, Restaurants, Shopping
Malls, Friend’s Homes, etc., and use mobile data only when there's no
other source available, your mobile data needs are greatly reduced.


Yet streaming pandora while driving down the road is not covered
by any of your fictional ubiquitous wifi

BTW, I would not allow friends on my wifi, I come close to the cap
every month as it is.
  #4  
Old April 14th 11, 05:52 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
Todd Allcock[_2_]
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Posts: 3,159
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:37:39 -0700, SMS
wrote:
On 4/13/2011 9:19 PM, Todd Allcock wrote:
That's the real problem with mobile data. At three o'clock in the
morning when I'm barreling down some deserted stretch of highway,

my
carrier couldn't care less if I stream Pandora or Netflix the

whole way.
It's during business hours when the same behavior might interfere

with
the corporate users paying top dollar that I might be a

liability. With
packet data, we all still get to connect, but excessive use slows
everyone's throughput.



Yet they've never been interested in following the peak/off-peak

pricing
model that they use for voice.


Because tiered data is still in its infancy. With unlimited plans,
there's no need for peak/off-peak.

AT&T's approach of providing more and more hotspots, while offering
tiers of data service, is likely to be copied by all the other

carriers
(at least the tiered data service). When you access to wi-fi at
Airports, Bakeries, Barber Shops, Bars, Campgrounds, Car Repair

Shops,
Car Dealers, Car Washes, Coffee Houses, Colleges, Copy Centers,

Donut
Shops, Freeway Rest Areas, Government Buildings, Hospitals, Medical
Centers, Hotels, Laundromats, Libraries, Parks, Restaurants,

Shopping
Malls, Friends Homes, etc., and use mobile data only when there's

no
other source available, your mobile data needs are greatly reduced.



And connecting to those hotspots is enough of a PITA that the tiers
should be "lucrative" enough to the customer to make it worth the
effort. AT&T's tier model is insulting. $10 (40%) less for 90% less
data with the hanging sword of punitive overage charges is not a
solution to get customers to use less data. Give 50 or 100MB for
free with a qualifying voice plan and maybe you'll see people logging
into WiFi at Laundromats!
  #5  
Old April 14th 11, 06:20 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,880
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

On 4/14/2011 8:52 AM, Todd Allcock wrote:

snip

And connecting to those hotspots is enough of a PITA that the tiers
should be "lucrative" enough to the customer to make it worth the
effort.


That might be true the first time you connect. After that the phone
remembers the pass code, if any, and it's less of a hassle.

AT&T's tier model is insulting. $10 (40%) less for 90% less data
with the hanging sword of punitive overage charges is not a solution to
get customers to use less data.


Sure it is, at least for AT&T. If you believe AT&T, 65% of smart phone
owners use less that 200MB of data per month and 98% use less than 2GB
per month (of course they don't say how many of those 65% are on the
$25/2GB plan or the old $30/unlimited plan). No one on the unlimited
plan is going to switch to the 2GB plan to save $5 even if they're using
between 200MB and 2GB a month.

I don't know how much AT&T's aggressive wi-fi hot spot program has
contributed to this data usage model.

Give 50 or 100MB for free with a
qualifying voice plan and maybe you'll see people logging into WiFi at
Laundromats!


I liked Sprint's old "Fair and Flexible" approach. If you went over your
allotted minutes, you automatically purchased a block of extra minutes
for a non-extortionate price.

The carriers and consumers are, of course, approaching the whole data
issue with totally different goals in mind. The carriers want to get
people on large or unlimited data plans, then have them use as little
data as possible. The consumers either want unlimited data to be truly
unlimited and high speed, or limited and priced fairly.

It's akin to the oil companies' law of supply and demand--"we have all
the supply, so we can demand whatever the $%%^ we want." If T-Mobile is
acquired, the number of suppliers falls again. Verizon may try to buy
U.S. Cellular which is doing poorly. No one seems to want Sprint.

  #6  
Old April 14th 11, 06:29 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,880
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

On 4/14/2011 8:10 AM, Justin wrote:

Yet streaming pandora while driving down the road is not covered
by any of your fictional ubiquitous wifi


You're correct, at least about the Pandora part. Pandora has admitted
that their whole business model is dependent on unlimited or very low
cost data, and data tiers appear to already having an effect on their
revenue. Hulu is going to have the same problem.

I think that by now you're well aware that wi-fi is extremely
ubiquitous, but you just can't let it go and admit your mistake.

BTW, I would not allow friends on my wifi, I come close to the cap
every month as it is.


Yes, the caps that AT&T is placing on DSL are problematic for those that
are streaming a lot of high-resolution video. Which is of course the
whole idea. AT&T wants you on U-Verse, Comcast wants you on cable.
Neither want you streaming video from Hulu or Netflix in lieu of paying
them $40-$120 per month for TV service or purchasing pay-per-view movies.
  #7  
Old April 14th 11, 06:52 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,880
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

On 4/14/2011 8:52 AM, Todd Allcock wrote:

Give 50 or 100MB for free with a qualifying voice plan and maybe you'll see people logging into WiFi at Laundromats!


That's a great idea for a consumer that is willing to use Wi-Fi, when
available in order to save money (and have a faster connection in most
cases), but not a good idea for the carrier's revenue model. If only
some carrier could offer 1000 or so voice minutes, a couple of thousand
text/MMS messages, and 100MB of data for something like $30 a month. If
you needed a little more data some months then they could sell it to
you. But probably this will never happen, except that it already did.

When Pageplus first started doing this they were swamped with new
customers and Verizon banned (or made Pageplus ban) smart phones on
Pageplus.

Right around the time Verizon started offering their $15/150MB data plan
Pageplus lifted the ban on smart phones (the iPhone is banned), and
thankfully did not re-institute it once Verizon realized that the 150MB
plan was a very bad idea in terms of revenue. It's not like that a
Verizon user would switch to AT&T in order to get a $15 data
plan--they'll pay whatever Verizon charges.

At a store that sells Verizon, T-Mobile, and AT&T, a salesperson did say
that the $15 AT&T plan was generating new smart phone sales from those
that did not need a lot of data, that would not pay $25-30 per month for
more data, but that were okay with $15 per month. That's probably why
Verizon tried something similar.
  #8  
Old April 14th 11, 07:07 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
Justin[_2_]
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Posts: 2,534
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

SMS wrote on [Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:20:22 -0700]:
On 4/14/2011 8:52 AM, Todd Allcock wrote:

snip

And connecting to those hotspots is enough of a PITA that the tiers
should be "lucrative" enough to the customer to make it worth the
effort.


That might be true the first time you connect. After that the phone
remembers the pass code, if any, and it's less of a hassle.


Sure... except then you have the case of ATTWIFI, you can connect
at starbucks and use it right away no problems, for free. Other places
you need to sign in and then login through a web browser to your AT&T
account.

At our local Meineke you need to join the network, then load their
webpage and enter a passkey on that.

My device can remember both of these networks just fine, and if I
go to starbucks I can be using the network in seconds, or if I go to
one of the places that require web page login like somewhere near campus
then I need to load a web page, enter my details and then it will work
for a while...

  #9  
Old April 14th 11, 07:11 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
Justin[_2_]
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Posts: 2,534
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

SMS wrote on [Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:29:43 -0700]:
On 4/14/2011 8:10 AM, Justin wrote:

Yet streaming pandora while driving down the road is not covered
by any of your fictional ubiquitous wifi


You're correct, at least about the Pandora part. Pandora has admitted
that their whole business model is dependent on unlimited or very low
cost data, and data tiers appear to already having an effect on their
revenue. Hulu is going to have the same problem.

I think that by now you're well aware that wi-fi is extremely
ubiquitous, but you just can't let it go and admit your mistake.


No, it's not. I've repeatedly debunked your myth with facts
And I am in the office right now and can't pick up a single wifi
signal. So how ubiquitous is it?


Most places I spend time aside from starbucks for 5 minutes every so often
and my house have zero free wifi
  #10  
Old April 14th 11, 07:25 PM posted to alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
Todd Allcock[_3_]
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Posts: 34
Default Bloomberg Businessweek Article on "Data Hogs"

At 14 Apr 2011 09:20:22 -0700 SMS wrote:
On 4/14/2011 8:52 AM, Todd Allcock wrote:

snip

And connecting to those hotspots is enough of a PITA that the tiers
should be "lucrative" enough to the customer to make it worth the
effort.


That might be true the first time you connect. After that the phone
remembers the pass code, if any, and it's less of a hassle.


You're assuming a WEP/WPA key. I'm mostly talking about the login/accept
TOS pages. These days, most smartphone data use is email and "app"
related. Your Facebook app or email program doesn't update until you
open your browser (usually still sitting at the last page you looked at,)
try to go somewhere, and get redirected to the login/TOS.


AT&T's tier model is insulting. $10 (40%) less for 90% less data
with the hanging sword of punitive overage charges is not a solution

to
get customers to use less data.


Sure it is, at least for AT&T. If you believe AT&T, 65% of smart phone
owners use less that 200MB of data per month and 98% use less than 2GB
per month (of course they don't say how many of those 65% are on the
$25/2GB plan or the old $30/unlimited plan). No one on the unlimited
plan is going to switch to the 2GB plan to save $5 even if they're
using between 200MB and 2GB a month.



The bulk of those 65% are probably using Blackberries, which compress
data at RIM's servers to conserve data.

You know what the averages for iPhones and Android phones are, so that
200MB is pretty disingenuous.


Give 50 or 100MB for free with a
qualifying voice plan and maybe you'll see people logging into WiFi at
Laundromats!


I liked Sprint's old "Fair and Flexible" approach. If you went over

your allotted minutes, you automatically purchased a block of extra
minutes for a non-extortionate price.

That's roughly analogous to my "deli" pricing idea. Charge everyone a
fair price for usage, and let the chips fall where they may. The problem
is that AT&T's (and every other carrier's business model) is predicated
on customers buying far more than they actually use, and enforcing that
behavior with the fear of outrageous overage charges.

Maybe that's the real solution for AT&T. Let the top "1%" pigs use their
100 or 200GB a month, and charge a fortune for it. Raise the 2GB tier to
4 or 5, elimnate _all_ unlimited data plans, letting those who complain
out of their contract, (because those who complain are probably the top 1%
anyway) and offer a new 200GB tier for $500 a month or whatever.


The carriers and consumers are, of course, approaching the whole data
issue with totally different goals in mind. The carriers want to get
people on large or unlimited data plans, then have them use as little
data as possible. The consumers either want unlimited data to be truly
unlimited and high speed, or limited and priced fairly.


True. But the lack of realistic tiers "proves" this problem is less of a
problem than carriers like AT&T want us to believe.

It's akin to the oil companies' law of supply and demand--"we have all
the supply, so we can demand whatever the $%%^ we want." If T-Mobile is
acquired, the number of suppliers falls again. Verizon may try to buy
U.S. Cellular which is doing poorly. No one seems to want Sprint.


Sprint might have a recovery if they're the only carrier left standing
with reasonable plans. T-Mo just launched a $79 unlimited everything
plan yesterday, matching Sprint's 4G everything plan. (Sprint doesn't
included unlimited calls to landlines, and T-Mo's "unlimited" data is
speed throttled after 2GB, IIRC.)


 




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